Poll: When it comes to ramp SCORE, which will assist MOST in getting A HIGHER SCORE?
This poll is closed.
Shorter Wheelbase
23.08%
3 23.08%
Better Suspension
69.23%
9 69.23%
Bigger Tires
7.69%
1 7.69%
Total 13 vote(s) 100%
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Now for this one!!
#1
that other one was for you, now THIS IS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT!!!
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#2
here is my debate, mel and i argued about this till we were blue in the teeth! jerk!

mel and i both went shy of 3 ft travel up the ramp.

our scores:

dodge: 559 travel 33
xj: 673 travel 34

why was his score so much higher. he had over 100 points on me. is it because his truck could go where mine could not? we had the same vertical articulation...

so why the score difference? it wasn't a better suspension i'll tell you that. we both have similar suspension flaws. i'm stiff in the front whereas mel is stiff in the rear... heh heh heh...

we would both make it over the same 3 foot obstacal, and here is where it is...

at 3 feet of articulation, mel's rig is "tippier" that mine, because of the shorter wheelbase, hence, the higher score.

if you look at the math, with shorter wheelbases, the score will go up faster, on a 20" sweep with a lower wheelbase.

do the math mel, or hell, send me the database and i'll show the sweep!!
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#3
aha!!! i new it!!
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#4
Shorter wheelbase makes for a better ramp score but ramp scores mean diddly in the real world..it's all about how your rig can handle the trail while moving, instead of one straight organized obstacle. I'm definitely going to stretch the wheelbase of the Jeep when I go to significantly larger tires just because I want the larger tires for ground clearance, and the short wheelbase makes the rig too much of an endo liability. I'm sure I could get the same ground clearance with no-lift mogs on 35's and keep the stock wheelbase but the mog gearing with the portals is insane, you really need larger tires anyway to run them without crawling everywhere.
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#5
TJ is right Ramp score is nothing but a bragging number. Having a higher score doesnt make your rig better on the trail. Alot of the time when you have an insane ramp score your rig is way to loose for the trail, it is all in what you want your rig to be good at. If you want to be able to rally your rig around and not have to worry about every twitch of the steering wheel you might want a tighter suspension. If your nothing but a 400:1 crawler you can afford to be loose but still most of the guys will run front and rear winches to tighten up the suspension when needed. I would like to get my rig into the 9s but it doesnt really matter... if the suspensin doesnt work on the trail... it isnt work 2 moose droppings!!!
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#6
very good oh observant ones!!

you are wise in the ways of wheeling and i prostrate myself before thee...


but as you can clearly see...
the title of this poll...

ya ready for it?

hang on,
i need to recap real quick, the suspension kills!!

ok here we have:

TJFeva Wrote:Shorter wheelbase makes for a better ramp score but .......

wait! wait!
theres more

willCrony4Mobin Wrote:TJ is right ...

and my favorite part

Quote:... it isnt work 2 moose droppings

and then we take a look at the title of the poll:

oooooooooooooooooooooooo... here it comes...


Quote:When it comes to ramp SCORE, which will assist MOST in getting A HIGHER SCORE?

B'DOW!!!


It's ok, i can see how you got confused with the big letters, and the caps, and the fact that it is the title, and all. i'm sure it was really confusing. it's ok though

the experience from your vast time on the trail has set us all straight




oh did i forget the smiley's?
i'll take the 3 day please!
or hell make it a 5
this was just too much to resist
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#7
you have to much time on your hands...

Suspension....

Next time I am bored and feel like chiming in... I WONT!!!
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#8
Chill out guys!!! A ramp is a good tool to check for shock tavel, tire rub and drive shaft lenght.
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#9
TJVigilante Wrote:Shorter wheelbase makes for a better ramp score but ramp scores mean diddly in the real world..it's all about how your rig can handle the trail while moving, instead of one straight organized obstacle. I'm definitely going to stretch the wheelbase of the Jeep when I go to significantly larger tires just because I want the larger tires for ground clearance, and the short wheelbase makes the rig too much of an endo liability. I'm sure I could get the same ground clearance with no-lift mogs on 35's and keep the stock wheelbase but the mog gearing with the portals is insane, you really need larger tires anyway to run them without crawling everywhere.

Bold = answering the question in the poll.

Everything else = discussion. What, that's not allowed anymore, Mr. Secretary? Rolleyes Yes, I voted for something else than how I answered but that's not against the rules, is it? Or did I miss that memo?
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#10
WHO'S UPSET? Not me...
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#11
Quote:
When it comes to ramp SCORE, which will assist MOST in getting A HIGHER SCORE?
easy answer OWNING A SAMURAI and yes A good ramp score does make for a awesome trail rig :poke:
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#12
CHROME :whistle:
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#13
Driver knowledge of there vehicle/Driver knowledge of their own abilities AND weaknesses are what I believe makes a trail rig awesome who cares about a ramp. Get on the trail and drive your vehicle to learn its capabilities/your own capabilities, and oh yeah, have fun!
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#14
I'm just glad I got chris going on this subject. Just to keep him arguing with me I'll chime in and say suspension.

For those that thinkt he ramp isn't worth a ****, you haven't really used one then. I've seen what my rig can do on a ramp and it's trail performance when it comes to flex resembles what it did on the ramp. I like having the ramp sessions. I've learned from them what the XJ's limiting factors are.
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#15
The thing with the ramp is it's a good tool to help you maximize your effective articulation and tell you what you need to change to get the most out of your rig. You can build a super-flexy link suspension that will give you an ungodly score but if your springs are too short and fall out of the spring buckets, that extra travel is useless and potentially dangerous. When that wheel ceases to carry any weight of the vehicle, it just as well may be up in the air, because it's not helping you with traction or stability at all.
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#16
My spring has came loose many times and hasn't caused me issue one. I'm working on making the rear suspension flex like the front. I want top score "sensored", and will still be dam good on the trail.
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#17
It won't necessarily cause problems but it's not really helping you much at all, that's what I'm trying to say. It's potentially dangerous because if it comes out far enough it can just fall out without retainers...if you have retainers, what if they break somehow? what if what if what if blah I'd rather not have to worry about it personally...limiting straps here I come.
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#18
AAhhh I put suspension but now I'm thinking if you had a tiny wheelbase then the score would go your way. i.e. two vehicles with same travel but one with shorter wheelbase will have a higher score. hmmm is my thinking right ?
Once mine is up and running again Smile I'm trying to hit the ramp.
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#19
Yup, it's travel up the ramp compared to your rig's wheelbase that determines your score.
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#20
nope
its distance from the ground. that is the biggest problem with the ramp score system, everyone has to argue it, i was even confused at first, but it makes sense when you see it.

it is vertical travel vs. wheelbase
not
ramp travel
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#21
You can measure either way. You just divide differently to get the same score.
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#22
No you can measure either way!!
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#23
The traditional calculations for RTI ramp scores uses ramp travel as opposed to vertical travel. In order to get vertical travel from the ramp travel measurement (which is the only way I've seen it measured) is to use trig math. I do agree that measuring straight up from the ground is a better overall determinant of articulation, but ramp scores vary depending on the angle of the ramp, which says that it's ramp travel, not vertical travel that is being used to make the score calculations.
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#24
ZMonster Wrote:nope
its distance from the ground. that is the biggest problem with the ramp score system, everyone has to argue it, i was even confused at first, but it makes sense when you see it.

it is vertical travel vs. wheelbase
not
ramp travel

Don't know if this will spark it back up or put it to bed, but this is my understanding:

RTI = Ramp Travel Index. The distance traveled up a given angled ramp divided by wheelbase on a scale from 1-1000. You're right, we did measure vertical distance. What you're missing is that we then used trigonometry to convert vertical height to ramp travel on a 30* angle. Looking at a RTI ramp from the side you see a 30/60/90 right triangle. Sin 30 = .5 meaning the the length of the side opposite the 30* divided by the hypotenuse is always .5. (Remember: Oscar Had A Hold On Arthur. sin = opposite / hypotenuse.) Using basic algebra now, double the opposite side(vertical height) and you get the hypotenuse(ramp travel). You can figure your score for any angle on any ramp doing it this way - or you don't even need a ramp - just a way to lift a tire.

My score as an example: 660 (official score based on our math at M&G)
Wheelbase = 103"
Vertical height = 34"
30* Ramp travel = 68"
(68/103)x1000 ~ 660

A SWB TJ with the exact same suspension would score 731.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramp_travel_index

This explains it waaaay better than I can, and there's even pictures so Chris and Mel can understand:p.
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#25
The way I see it, if you have enough travel in your suspenison to unseat your springs far enough for them to fall off, what good is that? Yeah, the guy that won had alot of travel in his arms and links, but remember how we had to back him off the ramp? Where's the guy with the shovel going to ride on the trail? At that point you need limiting straps and I'd take those over retainers. You can safely unseat a spring and get a few more inches out of your suspension, which retainers would prevent, but if you have neither and a coil falls off past the bumpstop on the trail and then you land on it...
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#26
Bring this one back from the dead.
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